Airborne School
- Thread starter kingtiger
- Start date
CPT (Ret) Nagel
11A Infantry Officer
What exactly would be the purpose or benefit of it for our needs?
CPT (Ret) Nagel
11A Infantry Officer
2LT Smith said:
Right. While what I am about to say sounds ridiculous, the 101st Airborne Division is not an airborne division anymore. They are an air assault division (attack from helicopters).
8)
kingtiger said:
The Current military has kind of moved away from dropping people out of C-130's. Its very impractical, people can get separated, shot at, parachute failures, landing in tress, landing in the wrong area and getting all together lost. Yes it is in rare cases still done, but for the most part we are an Air Assault unit and training with the blackhawks is usually done at a platoon level. Mass dropping out of C-130s or C-17s would be a big waste of resources unless you were doing a large scale invasion ie: WW2. Were also trying to represent current military operations not re-living the movie Band of Brothers.
CPT (Ret) Nagel
11A Infantry Officer
soontm
CPL Coffman said:
You forget about the 82nd Airborne Division, the last true "airborne" division in the US Army. ~20,000 troops on jump status, with ~4,000 ready to deploy anywhere in the world via mass tactical parachute operations in 18 hours. 13 jumps in I can tell you that to us, it's not rare at all, it's an essential job function. Compared to the entire US Army, yes it's rare.
CPT (Ret) Nagel
11A Infantry Officer
Mallea said:
While the 82nd and 173rd are airborne units (and the rangers I guess), and they do train for it regularly. It still doesn't take away from the fact that it is a waste of resources and very impractical. The last real (mass) combat jump was Panama. Not saying it wont happen, its just very impractical now a-days.
Before this gets into a pissing contest: I'm out
SSgt Nagel said:
Lol we're in agreeance on Panama. That airfield in Iraq was already controlled by NATO forces. My point here is that it might seem impractical, but it shouldn't be ruled out as a tactical or strategic option and is still the primary mission of an entire division in the Army.
As for that last bit, we're adults, let's save the virtual bullets for the virtual bad guys
Oscar_Geare
Member
While it might have been the last combat jump for the US Military, of note is the French Foreign Legion and Pakistan who have done combat jumps in the last 5 years. The Pakistani's have actually done it twice, in early 2009 during Operation Black Thunderstorm and then later that year for Rad Nijat or something?
Last year the French captured Timbuktu through the use of Paratroopers.
In 89 the Indians used paratroopers in a preemptive strike against Pakistan.
The Rhodesians used paratroopers regularly in their Counter-Insurgency operations (but this was back in the 60s/70s). Look up the Rhodesian Firestorm tactics It's an interesting read if any of you care. Basically they would get reports of insurgent activity, their helicopter forces that were in the air would move to that location, drop their troops and suppress with gunships, then a platoon of paratroopers would come in. They would sometimes be doing ~3 drops a week.
Last year the French captured Timbuktu through the use of Paratroopers.
In 89 the Indians used paratroopers in a preemptive strike against Pakistan.
The Rhodesians used paratroopers regularly in their Counter-Insurgency operations (but this was back in the 60s/70s). Look up the Rhodesian Firestorm tactics It's an interesting read if any of you care. Basically they would get reports of insurgent activity, their helicopter forces that were in the air would move to that location, drop their troops and suppress with gunships, then a platoon of paratroopers would come in. They would sometimes be doing ~3 drops a week.
CPT (Ret) Nagel
11A Infantry Officer
CW2 Westfield said:
Yes, but than they moved into the friendly FOB that was right next to the DZ. It was just for show to keep the Iraqi army looking North.
Oscar_Geare
Member
Rangers jumped into Kurdistan in '03.
SSgt Nagel said:
While yes, they jumped on top a NATO controlled airfield, remember the strategy. The jump was six days after the initial push from the south and 4 days after the jump the entire brigade was boots-on-ground with its vehicles and tanks from 1-63. Might look like a show, but they fortified their position and brought in the rest of their guys and equipment.
SPC (Ret) D. Lee
11B Infantryman
Airborne school slots aren't too common to get for 11Bs throughout the 101st (division pathfinders lost their active jump status like a year ago, and they were the last Airborne unit). All 11As I've met went through during West Point or ROTC before Ranger School, but only some of the more senior enlisted (or dudes who PCS from Airborne units) rock the winged 'chute around here.
Air Assault School on the other hand, is extremely common. Something like 90% or more of a line Infantry company is Air Assault qualified (and yet division as a whole is only at like 40%, thanks POGs), new guys are sent within a couple weeks of reporting, and get (hazed, then) sent back if they don't pass. I don't know how you guys are going to recreate the silliness of AASLT in Arma, but if I weren't out of the country right now I'd dig up the old Sabalauski Air Assault School handbook for you. There's probably a digital version floating around the internet anyway.
Air Assault School on the other hand, is extremely common. Something like 90% or more of a line Infantry company is Air Assault qualified (and yet division as a whole is only at like 40%, thanks POGs), new guys are sent within a couple weeks of reporting, and get (hazed, then) sent back if they don't pass. I don't know how you guys are going to recreate the silliness of AASLT in Arma, but if I weren't out of the country right now I'd dig up the old Sabalauski Air Assault School handbook for you. There's probably a digital version floating around the internet anyway.
CPL Coffman said:
Actually since the start of airborne units there have been more than just paratroopers. Glider troops landed in France in WW2 and heliborne troops since Viet Nam. The difference between Airborne and non airborne units are that they have the capability to move the entire unit that way.
So, an airborne unit can glide, paradrop, or air assault into a landing/drop zone. The 82nd is a great example as well as the 101st. I believe you would be hard pressed to find another entire Division capable of either "method".
Cheers!